November 5, 2024

Matt Hancock expected to hit back at critics in evidence to Covid inquiry; Boris Johnson to appear for two days next week – live

Hancock #Hancock

Hancock denies being liar and says Cummings to blame for ‘toxic culture’ in No 10

Keith asks why people like Dominic Cummings thought Hancock was a liar?

“I was not,” says Hancock. He says no one in his department has supported these false allegations.

And people did not say this to him at the time, he says.

Keith says the inquiry has no interest in the allegation that Johnson considered sacking Hancock, because it will not be possible to get to the truth of what happened.

Hancock says the inquiry could get to the truth of this matter if it wanted to.

He says the “toxic culture” in No 10 was essentially caused by Cummings.

Matt Hancock accuses Dominic Cummings of creating ‘culture of fear’ at No 10 – video

He describes Cummings as a “malign actor”.

He says Cummings made the situation unpleasant, and he made things unpleasant for his (Hancock’s) staff too.

But he just got on with things, he says.

Updated at 08.30 EST

Key events

  • 2m ago

    Hancock defends saying increasing testing and contact tracing ‘in hand’ on 14 March 2020

  • 27m ago

    Hancock says, with hindsight, lockdown should have started on 2 March 2020, cutting death toll in first wave by 90%

  • 1h ago

    Politicians from across political spectrum pay tribute to Alistair Darling

  • 2h ago

    Starmer pays tribute to Darling, saying his ‘calm expertise and honesty’ helped UK through financial crisis

  • 2h ago

    Former Labour chancellor Alistair Darling has died, aged 70, his family says

  • 3h ago

    Hancock says Cummings created ‘culture of fear’ in No 10 which undermined effectiveness of Covid response

  • 3h ago

    Hancock denies being liar and says Cummings to blame for ‘toxic culture’ in No 10

  • 3h ago

    Hancock says his ‘single biggest regret’ is not insisting on policy being based on assumption of asymptomatic transmission

  • 4h ago

    Sunak claims he is ‘not in hock to ideological zealots’ over climate crisis

  • 4h ago

    No written evidence to support Hancock’s claim he told Johnson on 13 March 2020 to order lockdown, inquiry hears

  • 4h ago

    Hancock claimed UK ‘better prepared than other countries’ for Covid on 12 March 2020, inquiry hears

  • 4h ago

    Hancock dismisses claims he was over-confident, saying he had to keep system ‘driving forward’

  • 4h ago

    Hancock says he was trying to ‘raise the alarm’ about Covid early, but ignored by No 10

  • 5h ago

    Hancock claims diary evidence showing DHSC was seen by No 10 as chaotic shows there was ‘toxic culture’ in Downing Street

  • 5h ago

    Matt Hancock starts giving evidence to Covid inquiry

  • 5h ago

    Boris Johnson to give evidence to Covid inquiry all Wednesday and Thursday next week, inquiry says

  • 5h ago

    Dominic Cummings’ list of examples of when he says Hancock lied to No 10 about Covid

  • 6h ago

    What previous witnesses to Covid inquiry have said about Hancock

  • 6h ago

    Matt Hancock appears at Covid inquiry

  • Hancock defends saying increasing testing and contact tracing ‘in hand’ on 14 March 2020

    Keith shows Hancock an exchange of messages on 14 March 2020 where Hancock says they need to ramp up contact tracing, and scale up testing. He says both measures are “in hand”.

    Exchanges on 14 March 2020 Photograph: Covid inquiry

    But, Keith says, testing had stopped, and there was no contact tracing.

    Q: Why did you say they were in hand?

    Hancock says he had issued instructions to reverse both those measures.

    On testing, the problem was the shortage of tests. He subsequently took responsibility for testing back from Public Health England into DHSC, and he escalated it.

    And he says PHE had stopped contact tracing. Hancock says he arranged for it to resume, on a large scale. And self-contact tracing was introduced, which became the app.

    He says this is what the reference to these measures being “in hand” is about. Both became big programmes.

    Lady Hallett, the chair, asks if these measures were actually “in hand” on 14 March.

    Hancock says he meant he was making them happen.

    Hancock recalls a meeting with his Italian counterpart in early March. He says that had a big impact on him, because in the UK they assumed the Italians had launched lockdown-type measures early. But the Italian health minister said he thought they should have acted earlier.

    Updated at 09.56 EST

    Keith refers to the debate about the concern that, if the virus was suppressed completely, it would bounce back later in the year.

    Q: To what extent did this slow down making policy?

    Very little, says Hancock. He says they rapidly decided it was best to suppress the virus.

    Hancock repeats his claim that he told Boris Johnson in a call on Friday 13 February he should order a lockdown.

    Keith asks if Hancock has a record of this not disclosed to the inquiry.

    Hancock says he doesn’t have that, only a record that a call took place.

    But he says he knows what he said in that call.

    Hancock says, with hindsight, lockdown should have started on 2 March 2020, cutting death toll in first wave by 90%

    Hancock says, with hindsight, the government should have acted on 28 February.

    He says, if they had taken a decision on Friday 28 February, they could have introduced a lockdown on Monday 2 March.

    That was three weeks earlier than when it was introduced, he says.

    There’s a doubling rate at this point, estimated, every three to four days. We would have been six doublings ahead of where we were, which means that fewer than a tenth of the number of people would have died in the first wave.

    Hancock says the costs of this approach were “known and huge”. So he defends the action that the government took.

    But with hindsight, that’s the moment we should have done it, three weeks earlier, and it would have saved many, many lives.

    UPDATE: Hancock said:

    With hindsight – Italy having locked down initially, locally in Lombardy on January 21, and then nationally locked down around also February 28 – if at that moment, having seen the Sage assumptions … if at that moment, we’d realised that it was definitely coming and the reasonable worst case scenario was as awful as it was, that is the moment that we should, with hindsight, have acted.

    And we had the doctrine that I proposed, which is as soon as you know you have got to lock down, you lock down as soon as possible, then we would have got the lockdown done over that weekend in on the second of March, three weeks earlier than before. There’s a doubling rate at this point estimated every three to four days, we would have been six doublings ahead of where we were, which means that fewer than a tenth of the number of people would have died in the first wave.

    At the time, there was still enormous uncertainty, the number of cases was still very low, in fact, there were only 12 cases reported on March 1, and the costs of what I’m proposing were known and huge. So I defend the actions that were taken by the government at the time, knowing what we did, but with hindsight, that’s the moment should have done it, three weeks, and it would have saved many, many lives.

    Having obviously thought about this and reflected on this a huge deal over the last few years, the first moment we realistically could have really cracked it was on March 2, three weeks earlier than we did.

    Updated at 09.46 EST

    Hancock says 28 February 2020 was an important day.

    The night before he learned Covid had a 1% fatality rate.

    At that point he was still being banned from talking to the media about Covid. He wanted to go on the Today programme.

    On 28 February he spoke to Boris Johnson. He told Johnson he should chair a Cobra that day. In the end it took place the following Monday, 2 March.

    He also says that he said at that point the government should lift its boycott of the Today programme. (At that point No 10 was not putting ministers on the Today programme, because Dominic Cummings objected to the programme.)

    He says he regards 28 February as the moment when the centre of government fully grasped the scale of the problem.

    Updated at 09.38 EST

    Hancock says he started receiving Sage minutes in mid-February.

    He says he now thinks he should have attended their meetings himself so he could hear what was being said.

    Q: So you were not getting the minutes from the body in charge of giving scientific advice on public health?

    Hancock says Sage was not the only body giving scientific advice. He says it was an important body, but says it would be wrong to “fetishise it”.

    Updated at 09.43 EST

    Keith asks which department was in charge of infection control.

    Hancock says the Cabinet Office was in charge of infection control across the population as a whole.

    Hugo Keith KC asks how Matt Hancock felt when he was told on 13 February 2020 that Sage had concluded China would not contain Covid.

    Hancock says Sage came to that view on 13 February. He says he does not recall when he was told about that.

    Keith says at a cabinet meeting on 14 February Prof Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, said there were plans in place to slow down the virus.

    Minutes of cabinet meeting. Photograph: Covid inquiry

    Q: What plans were in place for infection control?

    Hancock says the plans were based on the 2011 strategy that was in place.

    Updated at 09.35 EST

    The Covid inquiry has resumed.

    Graeme Wearden has more tributes to Alistair Darling on his business live blog.

    Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have both paid tribute to Alistair Darling.

    Blair said:

    Alistair Darling was a rarity in politics.

    I never met anyone who didn’t like him. He was highly capable, though modest, understated but never to be underestimated, always kind and dignified even under the intense pressure politics can generate.

    He was the safest of safe hands. I knew he could be given any position in the cabinet and be depended upon. I liked him and respected him immensely as a colleague and as a friend.

    In all the jobs he did for me in government – chief secretary, work and pensions, transport, trade and industry and of course as secretary of state for Scotland, he was outstanding.

    He could take tough decisions on spending when he needed to, but as he did with Crossrail, when convinced of a project’s importance, he would be equally tough in supporting it.

    I remember him with huge affection. He has been taken from us far too soon. My deepest condolences to Maggie, to Calum and Anna.

    And Brown said:

    Alistair will be remembered as a statesman of unimpeachable integrity whose life was defined by a strong sense of social justice and who gained a global reputation for the assured competence and the exercise of considered judgment he brought to the handling of economic affairs.

    He was held in the highest esteem by me and all who worked with him for the way in which he handled the fall of the major banks and negotiated international agreements with fellow finance ministers. I, like many, relied on his wisdom, calmness in a crisis and his humour.

    Alistair’s family were central to everything he did. I send my deepest condolences to his loving wife Maggie and their children Calum and Anna. He will be missed by all who knew and respected him and benefited from the great work he did.

    Politicians from across political spectrum pay tribute to Alistair Darling

    Many people in politics are paying tribute to Alistair Darling now, and I won’t try to post them all here. It is conventional, and good manners, to be complimentary about someone who has just died, but relatively few people in politics are as widely liked and respected as he was, and his death at the age of 70 has come as an absolute shock.

    As a sign of how highly he was regarded, here are some of the things his political opponents have been saying about him.

    From David Cameron, the Conservative foreign secretary and former prime minister:

    Incredibly sad to hear that Alistair Darling has passed away.

    Alistair was a thoroughly kind and decent man. Despite us representing opposing parties, I always valued his immense contribution and enjoyed working with him too. We owe him a huge debit of gratitude for chairing the Better Together campaign ahead of the [Scottish independence] referendum in 2014. He led the campaign with great distinction and tenacity, securing Scotland’s place in our Union.

    He has left us far too early. My thoughts and prayers are with Maggie and his children, Calum and Anna.

    From Theresa May, the former Conservative PM:

    Sad to learn of the death of Alistair Darling, whom I will remember as a committed public servant, a proud Unionist and a calm, kind and decent man. He was an asset to our politics and our national life. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

    From Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s former SNP first minister:

    Very sad to hear the news of Alistair Darling’s untimely death. Though we were on opposing sides of the independence referendum – with the inevitable clashes that involved – I always found him to be a man of intellect and principle. He made a significant contribution to politics and public life. My condolences are with his loved ones.

    From John Swinney, the former SNP deputy first minister:

    Terribly sorry to hear this sad news of the untimely death of Alistair Darling. He held office in the incredibly difficult days of the financial crash and acted with skill and care. We always enjoyed friendly and courteous dialogue. I am so sorry for Maggie and her family.

    From Rupert Harrison, chief of staff to George Osborne when Osborne was chancellor:

    Incredibly sad news. When we arrived in the Treasury in 2010 it was clear that Alistair Darling had inspired deep affection and loyalty from all of his officials. He also treated us gracefully and politely during the transition. A big loss to our public life.

    How should we all behave in political life?

    Check out the astonishing universal response on here to the sad news of Alistair Darling’s death.

    And then try to #belikeAlistair

    From John McDonnell, the leftwing former shadow chancellor on the opposite side of Labour politics to Darling:

    So sorry to hear that Alistair Darling has died. We may have at times differed on economic strategy but he was always generous of spirit & I enjoyed his quick wit in even the most challenging of times. I send my condolences and deepest sympathy to his family and friends.

    Updated at 09.04 EST

    Simon Stevens, the former head of NHS England, told the Covid inquiry earlier this month that Matt Hancock thought that, if decisions had to be taken about which patients should be prioritised in the event of the NHS being overwhelmed, that should be a decision for ministers (ie him), not doctors.

    Asked about this during the hearing this morning, Hancock rejected this claim. He said:

    The minutes [from Nimbus, a planning exercise in 2020] do show that the NHS asked the question of how to prioritise when there is insufficient NHS capacity and there was a debate around that, as you can see in the minutes, and then I concluded that it should be for clinicians, not for ministers, to make a decision on this basis and that’s how we went on and proceeded. The minutes are really clear on that and that’s also my clear recollection.

    Hancock also said that the “really important” lesson of Exercise Nimbus had been that “there was no way we could allow the NHS to become overwhelmed”.

    Updated at 09.02 EST

    Starmer pays tribute to Darling, saying his ‘calm expertise and honesty’ helped UK through financial crisis

    Keir Starmer has paid tribute to Alistair Darling. The Labour leader said:

    I am deeply saddened to learn of the passing of Alistair Darling. My heart goes out to his family, particularly Maggie, Calum and Anna, whom he loved so dearly.

    Alistair lived a life devoted to public service. He will be remembered as the chancellor whose calm expertise and honesty helped to guide Britain through the tumult of the global financial crisis.

    He was a lifelong advocate for Scotland and the Scottish people and his greatest professional pride came from representing his constituents in Edinburgh.

    I consider myself incredibly fortunate to have benefited from Alistair’s counsel and friendship. He was always at hand to provide advice built on his decades of experience – always with his trademark wry, good humour.

    Alistair will be missed by all those whose lives he touched. His loss to the Labour party, his friends and his family is immeasurable.

    Updated at 08.08 EST

    Newly homeless families now outnumber newly built social homes by six to one, according to official figures for England released this morning that expose the widening gap between increasing need and the availability of cheap homes. Robert Booth has the story.

    Former Labour chancellor Alistair Darling has died, aged 70, his family says

    Alistair Darling’s family issued a statement saying:

    The death of Alistair Darling, a former chancellor of the exchequer and long-serving member of the Labour cabinet, was announced in Edinburgh today.

    Mr Darling, the much-loved husband of Margaret and beloved father of Calum and Anna, died after a short spell in Western General hospital under the wonderful care of the cancer team.

    Alistair Darling on the day of the March 2010 budget. Photograph: Kevin Coombs/Reuters

    Updated at 08.02 EST

    The Covid inquiry has now stopped for lunch. The hearing will resume at 1.45pm.

    Turning away from the Covid inquiry, Alistair Darling, the former Labour chancellor, has died, PA Media reports.

    Updated at 07.59 EST

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