Malcolm Turnbull’s WhatsApp texts reveal Robodebt concerns and assurances offered by ministers

Former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull described a Tasmanian MP critical of Robodebt as being on a “warpath”, a royal commission into the illegal scheme has heard.

A raft of WhatsApp text messages between Mr Turnbull and then human services minister Alan Tudge have been shown to the Robodebt inquiry today in Brisbane.

Mr Turnbull provided the messages as part of his evidence via video link this morning.

He was quizzed about his time as prime minister from 2015 to 2018, while the Robodebt scheme was underway.

He told the royal commission he often spoke directly with ministers in an “informal”, “consensual” and “collegiate way” as part of the “many vectors” of communication with them.

“A lot of it happened over WhatsApp, which is a very convenient messaging system,” Mr Turnbull said.

In the messages, Mr Turnbull discussed the growing media interest around the Robodebt scheme in 2017 and asked Mr Tudge if he was “monitoring” the reporting.

In one message delivered to Mr Turnbull on January 20, 2017, Mr Tudge wrote: “PM, Tas minister calling for Centrelink system to be stopped. She is aligned to Abetz. She didn’t speak to me at all. Just wanted to let you know. Alan”.

Mr Turnbull replied: “Yes they are on the warpath.”

Other messages sent about one week earlier to then social services minister Christian Porter show Mr Turnbull was concerned about the automatic issuing of Robodebt letters, warning him that “we don’t want missteps with pensioners”.

In a message to Mr Turnbull on January 13, 2017, Mr Porter explained that his office staff were present in briefings with Mr Tudge and the Department of Human Services (DHS) about the scheme’s rollout.

In Mr Porter’s messages, he detailed his three “observations” about Robodebt and its online system.

Mr Porter said he thought “more should have been known about the system design before its implementation”.

He went on to say there were conversations about pausing the scheme, but noted that doing so “would be the absolute worst strategic move”.

“The best course is to slow down to minimise problems in the next round of letters and fix issues quickly and silently behind the scenes – the more serious shortcomings can be fixed by a range of changes which are now being actioned – focusing the next mail out only on current welfare recipients will also minimise problems arising from old addresses information being on file …”

Mr Porter also said: “… the media issues are largely contained to Fairfax and ABC [sic] the advocacy against the program will linger for those two outlets but the media temperature on the issue has notably declined and it is not a story being pursued outside Fairfax and ABC.”

Mr Porter finished by saying “ultimately I am satisfied [Alan Tudge] has the situation in hand”.

Mr Turnbull replied that he would “stay close” to Mr Tudge on the issue.

But the text messages shown to the inquiry also reveal that by May 19, 2017, Mr Turnbull had raised further concerns.

“Christian how confident are you that the algorithm for the debt letters is fixed – we don’t want missteps with pensioners,” Mr Turnbull wrote.

Mr Porter replied by saying “pensioner asset checking in debt recovery will not start until July 1”.

He said that this could be delayed but that “Alan [Tudge] thinks the program will be in a sound state” to commence.

‘I expected ministers to take responsibility’: Turnbull

Mr Turnbull told the royal commission that when he became prime minister he did not want the government “run out of the prime minister’s office”, adding that this was “unlike other prime ministers”.

“I was very clear that I expected ministers to take responsibility for their department,” he said.

Mr Turnbull said he never turned his mind to the legality of Robodebt because he’d received legal advice that it was lawful.

“I did not turn my mind to the legality of the program, it never occurred to us it was unauthorised,” he said.

“Cabinet was told that it was lawful … in the sense it was consistent with the legislation.”

Mr Turnbull referred to a document that he said made him confident “new legislation was not required”.

“It’s very clear what it says — the Australian government solicitor has looked at it and says it’s constitutional and you have the authority under the relevant legislation to do it,” he said.

Mr Turnbull told the inquiry he had confidence in his ministers. 

But he said on January 20, 2017 he questioned Mr Tudge about it: “Alan, we need a frank assessment of what the problems are and what is happening to fix them. Are you sure your department is giving you the right advice on what is happening?”

Mr Turnbull told Commissioner Catherine Holmes SC this message showed he was “pressing” Mr Tudge to “do his job”.

The inquiry continues.