Sunday Conversation: Don Was On 85 Years Of Blue Note And The Dead

Blue Note Records President/musician/producer Don Was in the studio.

Myriam Santos

This year marks the eighty-fifth anniversary of legendary record label Blue Note, which, over the years, has been home for some of the greatest jazz artists. Dexter Gordon, Cannonball Adderly, Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane’s Blue Train, Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter and more are part of the label’s storied history.

In more recent years, the label has housed the likes of Van Morrison, Al Green, Wynton Marsalis, McCoy Tyner, John Scofield, Anita Baker and, most successfully, Norah Jones. Jones is part of a massive 2024 release schedule that will see 70 releases, new and reissued, by Blue Note this year to commemorate the anniversary.

The man currently at the helm of it is musician/producer Don Was. Was is the current president of Blue Note Records. But that is just one of many titles he holds at present. He is also the bassist for Bob Weir’s Wolf Bros, as well as an active producer who has worked with everyone from Bonnie Raitt and The Rolling Stones to John Mayer and Bob Dylan, and a musical director, including last year’s ninetieth birthday celebration for Willie Nelson at the Hollywood Bowl.

Was spoke with Sage Bava and I about all of his endeavors, how Wayne Shorter changed his life, the current slate of Blue Note releases and much more.

Steve Baltin: What are you excited about?

Don Was: The thing I’m most excited about is all the records we’ve got coming out this year. When we thought, “How do you celebrate the eighty-fifth anniversary?” I’m cognizant of the fact that we celebrated the eightieth, the seventy-fifth and the seventieth too. We thought, “Rather than fill it up with superfluous add-ons and stuff, let’s just put together the best release schedule we’ve ever had.” It’s a conscious decision to put the best schedule together. So, we’re releasing 70 records this year. Fifty of them were super high quality vinyl catalog things either from the Tone Poet Series or the Classic Series. Then there are 20 front line releases of new music and there’s just some incredible stuff coming. You hope for the best, but you never know since sometimes you just don’t know, you don’t always go in the studio and make a masterpiece, you can’t really control that. All you can do is do your best and hope it comes out well. But this year we’ve got people who are making definitive records from every spectrum from Norah Jones to Charles Lloyd. Charles Lloyd’s made the best record of his career but at 86 it’s pretty wild.

Sage Bava: I grew up on jazz. It’s so cool to see all of these young people getting so into jazz and how this big resurgence is happening. Did you see this resurgence coming? How do you feel about it?

Was: When I was 20, I was going to the University of Michigan and having a pretty rough time of it. I dropped out of school. I was living in Ann Arbor, wanted to be in a band like The MC5 or The Stooges. And I was playing some top 40 gigs, it was horrible. Things weren’t going the way I pictured it and I was feeling pretty lost. The thing that used to get me back on track was putting on Wayne Shorter’s album Speak No Evil, which I bought as a new record in the ’60s right when it was current. By the time I got to side two, I remembered who I was and what the mission was. So, when I was feeling derailed and lost that album would get me back on track. It still does. The effect of it was not lost on me. That’s kind of that impacted my aspirations for the future, which was, “Alright, this is a good thing, this is as important as social activism, this is a form of it, just making people feel better about their lives in turbulent times.” That’s all I ever tried to do. You mentioned Bonnie [Raitt], she’s the perfect example, a song like “Nick of Time” gave a voice to a feeling that was out there in the zeitgeist, but no one was addressing it. I think that’s why it was so popular. At that point, if you were 40 years and you were a woman and you were making rock and roll you had to pretend you were 18. She just decided, “No, I’m going to be who I am.” It turns out there were a whole bunch of other people who were turning 40 at that same time and no one was making music for them. So, you just try to make music that improves the quality of people’s lives and that will mean something to them, make them feel a part of something, make them feel not alone in the world. You need that more than ever today, cause there’s a lot of negative stuff going on in the world and people need comfort. That’s as far as the plan goes and about as far as the vision goes. It was relevant to me 50 years ago, and it’s relevant now, just do that and try to put out the best records that’ll utilize the power of music to heal and soothe. So, I don’t know if there’s a resurgence coming or not. But I know if it comes, we’ve got the music for it. There’s always a place for great music that makes you feel something. Even if it’s not going to go into the top 10 pop singles that’s all right, there’s always a place for it. It’s also timeless because Speak No Evil still works for me by the way. If I have a rough day I’ll still play that record and I’ll feel better by the end of it.

Baltin: I realize now the goal is not top 10. There’s nothing wrong with that, but the goal is to be making music in 50 years.

Was: Yeah, and to have the music you make now be relevant 50 years from now. The good art is art that communicates. Beethoven still communicates, he is long gone, but the music still impacts people on a very deep level.

Baltin: Talk about the stuff coming you are excited about and that will be celebrated at Blue Note’s hundred-thirty-fifth anniversary in fifty years.

Was: Norah’s record is incredible, man. I think, as a whole, it’s the best record she ever made. You get a real strong sense of who she is. I was never confused by the way she would swap textures around, how she could put an acoustic guitar or a Dobro in a song and then come back and do one after it that’s like a jazz trio. I always felt that it was like Miles Davis changed the textures around himself constantly, but he always sounded like Miles. So, I was never confused by that. But she’s got all of her roots organically, integrally, woven together on this new album. And there’s an enthusiasm and spirit of joy under it. By the way, it has to do with the way she made the record with Leon Michaels, where they played all the instruments basically, and just built these things up. But you can hear the excitement in the room that she was doing something fresh, and I love the record. Right now, we have our Blue Note Eighty-Fifth anniversary band out on tour. That’s Joel Ross, Immanuel Wilkins, Gerald Clayton, Kendrick Scott and Matt Brewer. They had two days off in L.A. right after the Grammys. We took them in the studio and they made a sensational, killer record. And Joel’s just put out an album of his called New Blues. I think it’s his best record today. Julian Lage has an incredible record with Joe Henry producing that takes him up to a whole other level of plan. Norah, Charles, Melissa Aldana, I think has an incredible voice on the saxophone, I don’t know anybody who plays like her. She’s got this really evocative tone, and she’s got a way of sliding into notes that I’ve never heard anyone do before. And she’s hit a new level. We got Bill Pursell, has this orchestral double thing coming out. Nduduzo Makhathini. South African pianist. I went to Johannesburg and he took me around South Africa. There’s a whole music scene happening there that’s very exciting. He’s at the center of it, he’s the leader, produces a lot of the records. He’s a great pianist, but he’s always toured with a big group, and he’s such a sweet, modest guy. We just made a trio record with him, cut it in New York, and you can really hear what a great pianist he is. It’s going to blow people’s minds. He’s a deep guy because he’s tied into the whole cosmology, mysticism that prevails in South Africa, and it enters into his music. He has listened extensively to American jazz and everything, but he brings it back to where it came from and adds this whole spiritual element to it. Meshell Ndegeocello made an incredible new record, inspired by the writing of James Baldwin. It’s her What’s Going On [Marvin Gaye]. Bill Charlap just made a new record, Live at the Village Vanguard, and that trio just keeps getting tighter and tighter. Walter Smith just handed in a record a couple of days ago that’s so good. I will say that you haven’t heard the last of Wayne Shorter, let me put it that way. Wayne knew he wasn’t going to be around much longer, and he earmarked a lot of stuff to be released, and it’s wonderful music. Then we got the Blue Note reviews coming back with a Lee Morgan theme box this year. We just made a record with Aaron Parks, he’s got two records coming out. Mark Knopfler, he’s putting out a record this year. Domi and JD are in the studio right now. Immanuel Wilkins, a new record produced by Meshell Ndegeocello, that’ll be out this year, It’s an awesome year.

Baltin: I got a little surprised when you mentioned Mark Knopfler, I love Mark. Who’s the one non jazz artist you would just love to work with on Blue Note?

Was: When I first got hired, I went to see the CEO of EMI. Dan McCarroll, who was the president of Capitol, took me over there. He had just signed off on me getting a gig at, and he asked me that same question. “In addition to jazz artists, who would you bring here?” I said, Lucinda Williams and Paul Westerberg. He said, “You’re hired.” I called both of them. Lucinda, I had just produced that record, Blessed, for her, so she’s a good friend. But she wanted to start her own record company, which she has done, and she’s done a great job of it. And I called Paul, and we talked. I produced one of his albums, Suicaine Gratification. I love that record and I loved him. I think he’s a great artist. When Bob Dylan was making the Sinatra albums, he was at Capitol Studios, and he came up to say hi in the Blue Note office at the Capitol Tower. I went down to the studio and listened to some of what he was doing. And I said, “Man, you’re singing great. We could use a singer like you on Blue Note.” He perked up, but he had a deal. That’d be a good sign.

Bava: What’s been the most difficult and the most rewarding things about keeping Blue Note’s legacy alive in this ever-changing world, but then also evolving Blue Note to be able to exist in the world that keep changing?

Was: I have to remind myself of the mandate that we have. In 1939, the founders of Blue Note wrote this kind of manifesto for a mission statement. It basically was about dedicating themselves to the making of authentic music and providing uncompromising freedom of expression to the artists. So, I just keep going back to that. I know how to sell more records. But it involves artistic compromise. I’m determined to never go that route and not to mess with artists’ vision, maybe because I had it happen to me as an artist. I had record companies get involved and tell us what we should be doing, and it ruined my band. There’s actually nothing really hard about to being the president of Blue Note Records. Don’t tell the people who pay me, but it’s mostly just fun and an incredible adventure. But I would say you can’t get too caught up in finance and accounting. If you stay true to the principles of the company, the bread will follow. And you’ve just got to keep that in mind and not get caught up in the minutia and pressure. Never compromise in music.

Baltin: That’s a good rule of thumb in everything.

Was: Yeah, be yourself. And it works in everything. Be the best version of you that you can be.

Baltin: What personally are you working on by the way?

Was: I haven’t finished that Blue Note 85 album, so that’s coming up. But I’ve been playing live more. Universal’s been great about that. They understand that it’s important to keep a working musician and record maker in the executive quarters too. So, they like it that I go out and play. I played 130 shows last year, went touring with Bob Weir and a few other things. Did that Willie Nelson ninetieth birthday thing at the Hollywood Bowl, I was the music director for that. I got more dates with Bobby coming in the last half of the year. There’s just something about playing live music that excited me the last couple years. I’m 71, and the quest for playing better notes, and getting a better tone never ends. And it’s the greatest challenge. When you get on top of something new, you immediately recognize the next place to improve yourself. I had a couple bass lessons from Ron Carter and it changed everything. He opened up all these new doors for me. To go out and play for three hours with Weir every night and get to apply these things, the thing about playing Grateful Dead music is it’s just like jazz, you can never play it the same way twice. That’s the only real rule about Grateful Dead stuff is that whatever you did last night, don’t do it tonight.

Baltin: I randomly interviewed Phil Lesh, Mickey Hart, and Bob, and Phil pointed out to me that without John Coltrane, there would be no Grateful Dead. So the fact you say it’s the same thing, it makes sense.

Was: Yep, it’s the same mindset. You’re just dealing with different scales and modes really, and rhythms. Sometimes, they’re not different. We do a lot of these improvisations with Bobby, just get off into a modal thing that McCoy Tyner could sit in easily with Grateful Dead. But it’s constantly challenging and always rewarding, especially with that audience. Great audience.

Baltin: What’s the favorite Dead song to play?

Was: It varies every night, but I would say the one that gets me emotionally every time is when we do “Ripple.” I can see the reaction in the crowd. We do it as an encore, maybe every four or five nights. We can go four nights without repeating anything. I think we’ve done five even. But when we come around to it as an encore, you see everyone, they put their arms around each other and they’ve been listening to that song for so long, and you can see people just start crying. I get choked up every time we play it because I can see how much it means to the audience.

Bava: As a fellow musician, learner, when you got those new doors opened by Ron and your playing, musical evolution translates to personal understanding of the world and self. To me, those go in tandem. I’m curious when you discovered those new things with Ron, how did you see that translate into your work at Blue Note or as a human?

Was: That’s a really good question. You have the prime motivator. The thing that I was most excited about in going to work with Bob Weir was that so much of the show is based on spontaneity and being open and really losing self-consciousness and just reacting clearly in the moment without thinking about it. I thought, “I’m going to get better at that and then I’ll be able to apply that to other parts of my life.” Absolutely it does. I think fighting the bonds of self-consciousness is the biggest fight in life. If you can just free yourself from that you’re going to have a good life.